[2007-04-05 18:58:39] brendan: Hello me
[2007-04-05 18:58:46] brendan: Hi Ana
[2007-04-05 18:58:51] Ana: hello you?
[2007-04-05 19:02:15] Ana: Hi Jem
[2007-04-05 19:02:28] brendan: Hi Jem
[2007-04-05 19:02:54] jem: hi
[2007-04-05 19:03:15] jem: thanks for the email by the way
[2007-04-05 19:03:15] Ana: Are you in Falmouth?
[2007-04-05 19:03:27] jem: yes
[2007-04-05 19:03:48] Lara: Hello
[2007-04-05 19:03:58] Ana: we are in Falmouth too. In the boat house in
fact
[2007-04-05 19:04:10] Ana: Hi Lara
[2007-04-05 19:04:12] jem: hello Lara
[2007-04-05 19:04:19] jem: Oh right this minute you mean?
[2007-04-05 19:04:23] paul: ah thats better
[2007-04-05 19:04:26] brendan: Hi Lara, Paul coming soon
[2007-04-05 19:04:28] jem: no I'm in Penryn
[2007-04-05 19:04:33] Ana: Hello hello
[2007-04-05 19:04:36] Lara: Apologies it seems we were in the wrong room
[2007-04-05 19:04:36] brendan: Aha
[2007-04-05 19:04:48] brendan: No worries
[2007-04-05 19:04:56] Ana: Ok, our moderators are here now. shall we start?
[2007-04-05 19:04:57] paul: strange chat behaviour - how are you all keeping
[2007-04-05 19:05:21] Ana: well and happy. but nervous...
[2007-04-05 19:05:34] brendan: very well, we're in the pub
[2007-04-05 19:05:49] Lara: shall we start with some introductions?
[2007-04-05 19:06:09] brendan: Do you want to kick off
[2007-04-05 19:06:14] Ana: please Lara, go ahead.
[2007-04-05 19:07:20] paul: Ok myself and Lara are VJs and have been working
together as the narrative lab
[2007-04-05 19:07:52] paul: for a number of years, trying to investigate
and put to use narrative production techniques in live video performance
work
[2007-04-05 19:08:26] Lara: starting off as VJs finding our feet creating
work, it seemed to us that introducing or experimenting with narrative
structures
[2007-04-05 19:08:44] Lara: was a rich avenue for moving forward our visual
work
[2007-04-05 19:09:02] Lara: so we joined together to form a collaborative
working group
[2007-04-05 19:06:14] Ana: please Lara, go ahead.
[2007-04-05 19:07:20] paul: Ok myself and Lara are VJs and have been working
together as the narrative lab
[2007-04-05 19:07:52] paul: for a number of years, trying to investigate
and put to use narrative production techniques in live video performance
work
[2007-04-05 19:08:26] Lara: starting off as VJs finding our feet creating
work, it seemed to us that introducing or experimenting with narrative
structures
[2007-04-05 19:08:44] Lara: was a rich avenue for moving forward our visual
work
[2007-04-05 19:09:02] Lara: so we joined together to form a collaborative
working group
[2007-04-05 19:09:43] brendan: Along with the workshop/seminars at AVIT?
[2007-04-05 19:09:50] paul: Over the years we've done a number of experiments
with non linear structures, annagramttic narrative and process led investigat
[2007-04-05 19:10:02] Lara: igations
[2007-04-05 19:10:08] paul: ;)
[2007-04-05 19:10:14] Lara: sorry we ddn't realise there was a word limit
[2007-04-05 19:10:43] paul: yes, a lot of work with AVIt and other festivals
as it was a great space to talk to wildy different people
[2007-04-05 19:11:38] paul: Brendan has also been quite involved with
some of our symposium projects lecturing on screen narrative and deleuze
[2007-04-05 19:11:59] Lara: and doing an excellent workshop using camers
poated around the conference venue, the custard factory
[2007-04-05 19:12:06] Lara: cameras posted
[2007-04-05 19:12:23] brendan: Thank you very much
[2007-04-05 19:12:27] Lara: well enough about us!
[2007-04-05 19:13:03] Lara: would someone else like to introduce themselves?
[2007-04-05 19:13:15] brendan: Whereb have these investigations taken
you?
[2007-04-05 19:14:19] jem: Hi, I'm doing a PhD in the University if the
Arts, London on effective structures of collaborative filmmaking
[2007-04-05 19:14:22] paul: We spent a lot of time looking at very conventional
narrative
[2007-04-05 19:14:37] Lara: Oh cool, Jem, good to meet you
[2007-04-05 19:14:41] Lara: We are also in London
[2007-04-05 19:14:43] paul: and alot of time trying to get away from it
[2007-04-05 19:14:54] paul: Hi Jem, nice to meet you
[2007-04-05 19:15:03] jem: I know what you mean
[2007-04-05 19:15:07] Lara: can you tell us a little bit more about your
work?
[2007-04-05 19:15:27] paul: I always considered storytelling to be a really
important part of life
[2007-04-05 19:15:52] paul: when i'm old i want to be full of tales to
tell my children { if i have any]
[2007-04-05 19:15:53] jem: Well I'm very interested in your narrative
going live idea
[2007-04-05 19:16:10] jem: film is normally such a staid way of telling
a story
[2007-04-05 19:16:28] jem: it takes so long to produce anything
[2007-04-05 19:16:33] Lara: have you done any live stuff yourself Jem?
[2007-04-05 19:17:02] paul: with this in mind our thoughts really turned
to how people organise their knowledge of the world and more particularly
how does
[2007-04-05 19:17:05] jem: Yes I'v done some live visuals for bands that
tell stories actually
[2007-04-05 19:17:40] Lara: cool, what have your experiences been? We
have been working hard to incorporate characters in our first piece, the
Storycollect
[2007-04-05 19:17:49] Lara: Storycollector
[2007-04-05 19:17:49] paul: the act of VJing mirror these processes
[2007-04-05 19:18:25] Ana: will you tellus more about the narrative side
of Storycollector?
[2007-04-05 19:19:01] Lara: I think our work needs to be seen in the
context of the more 'random' way of approaching visuals
[2007-04-05 19:19:16] Lara: at the beginning we were experimenting with
anything that would give our sets cohesion
[2007-04-05 19:19:19] brendan: Hi Magda
[2007-04-05 19:19:51] jem: Graphics can guide a story quite nicely
[2007-04-05 19:19:59] Lara: storycollector had a character with a small
narrative so that was quite important for us
[2007-04-05 19:20:15] Lara: we were also interested at the time in experimenting
with processes of creating
[2007-04-05 19:20:25] Lara: so we spent a long time making collaborative
exercises
[2007-04-05 19:20:36] jem: Have you managed to get a cortporate feeling
of narrative within clubs?
[2007-04-05 19:20:50] Lara: .... writing together online collaboratively,
etc
[2007-04-05 19:21:04] Lara: corporate/corporeal
[2007-04-05 19:21:15] Lara: not quite sure what you mean :)
[2007-04-05 19:21:30] Ana: Lara, when you say writing, do you mean texts?
[2007-04-05 19:21:44] Lara: yes writing stories through text
[2007-04-05 19:21:55] Lara: and also making images and passing them to
each other to work on
[2007-04-05 19:22:06] Ana: and how did you translate them into images?
[2007-04-05 19:22:10] Lara: and also creating character sketches through
graphics and snippets of texts
[2007-04-05 19:22:15] jem: Like everyone was in the same place as your
story? Or is that notr the idea?
[2007-04-05 19:22:28] paul: A good experiment to describe this was a piece
called character cards
[2007-04-05 19:22:41] paul: where e wuld start with a line of text or
an image
[2007-04-05 19:22:51] Lara: Jem> I think that is one of the key areas
of discussion
[2007-04-05 19:23:10] paul: then have to expand that piece of text into
an image that would give a feeling of a character
[2007-04-05 19:23:45] paul: it was very free but the idea was to build
a library of characters that could be called upon in a narrative at any
time
[2007-04-05 19:24:11] Lara: we still dream about creating something that
is very flexible and can be mainpulated live in realtime
[2007-04-05 19:24:44] paul: we looked at some ideas about breaking sdown
cinema into seperate pieces, so it seemed to make sense to create lots
of pieces
[2007-04-05 19:24:46] Lara: which dovetails with Jem's question in that
we can be very free with the narrative to suit the space...
[2007-04-05 19:24:52] Lara: and the practices that are going on within
it
[2007-04-05 19:24:58] paul: that could be built in reverse order to form
a story
[2007-04-05 19:25:17] Ana: how does the music fit with your images?
[2007-04-05 19:25:29] Lara: it doesn't usually
[2007-04-05 19:25:36] Lara: we hate DJs... lol
[2007-04-05 19:25:42] Ana: :-)
[2007-04-05 19:25:46] paul: thats a showstopper!
[2007-04-05 19:25:49] jem: Do you deliberately swap characters to get
across the idea that people shouldn't follow them so closely at all?
[2007-04-05 19:25:54] Lara: we reject the tyranny of having to match the
beat all the time
[2007-04-05 19:25:54] Ana: but you pla in clubs, don't you?
[2007-04-05 19:25:54] brendan: :smile:
[2007-04-05 19:26:22] Lara: I think the media disrupts the traditional
narrative
[2007-04-05 19:26:42] Lara: even if you created something as a film, if
you Vjed it it would come out extremely differently
[2007-04-05 19:26:45] Ana: ha. that is something we were discussing the
other da, the pointless of images matching the same beat as the music.
[2007-04-05 19:26:51] paul: we became quite interested in where meaning
was made
[2007-04-05 19:27:16] paul: was it in the act of vjing itself, or did
we have to give up some of that meaning for the audience to play with
[2007-04-05 19:27:17] brendan: How does it work in a club space where
people are, say, dancing???
[2007-04-05 19:27:52] Lara: it's a complex relationality
[2007-04-05 19:27:57] paul: social spaeces are quite complex
[2007-04-05 19:28:02] brendan: The locus of meaning as in the viewer of
the VJ or the images?
[2007-04-05 19:28:17] brendan: that's or the VJ
[2007-04-05 19:28:26] Lara: thinking about how and even if meaning is
made between the audience and the image
[2007-04-05 19:28:38] brendan: nobody watches VJs aparently
[2007-04-05 19:28:48] Lara: but the VJ is working inherently as a filter,
and he or she is situated in that situation
[2007-04-05 19:28:49] paul: well, there's lots of little acts of interpretation
in a live performance
[2007-04-05 19:29:22] Lara: and even if people don't watch the visual
it doesn't mean that they don't take in parts of what is going on
[2007-04-05 19:29:39] jem: But isn't that because no one knows that the
visuals are not just wallpaper, Brendan?
[2007-04-05 19:29:40] paul: and even before the performance itsself. We
started thinking about the act of vjing a little like being a collector
of pieces
[2007-04-05 19:30:08] Lara: I think that looking at VJing from the perspective
of an audience is a complete waste of time
[2007-04-05 19:30:11] paul: i cam across this amazing story of a collector
in newyork who would exhibit his collections not by title but by story
[2007-04-05 19:30:28] paul: so a whiskey bottle, a stuffed mouse and a
clock would be titled something like:
[2007-04-05 19:30:48] Lara: we wanted to be like Paul's collector where
we were in dialogue with the audience
[2007-04-05 19:30:58] paul: the angry mouse was rediculousy drunk when
the hour struck twelve
[2007-04-05 19:31:10] magda: paul, don't you think that it is almost like
a work of a curator?
[2007-04-05 19:31:15] Lara: rather than trying to please them through
an assumed inherent representational quality of music and image
[2007-04-05 19:31:20] brendan: Excellent
[2007-04-05 19:31:22] paul: yes, absolutely magda
[2007-04-05 19:31:55] paul: and its also very alike how our cognitive
processes organise information
[2007-04-05 19:32:23] magda: that is really interesting to look at vj
work in that context, because it creates sort of meta situation
[2007-04-05 19:32:29] paul: a quote to sum it up:
[2007-04-05 19:32:37] paul: “Drawing a series of maps for a rugged
and periodically shifting terrain that is not
[2007-04-05 19:32:42] brendan: Which makes some sort of signification
also inevitable?
[2007-04-05 19:32:45] paul: located in the real world of ordinary experience
yet is connected by users
[2007-04-05 19:32:50] paul: detrimental ways.”
[2007-04-05 19:33:19] magda: whose quote is that?
[2007-04-05 19:33:33] Lara: At the outset of the storycollector I think
it was very much about telling the story through representation
[2007-04-05 19:33:45] paul: Robert Baugrade
[2007-04-05 19:33:52] Lara: but by the end the relationship between the
two of us and the collaboration had become more important
[2007-04-05 19:34:03] Lara: the story as it were had taken on a life of
its own
[2007-04-05 19:34:35] Lara: and was not just an instrumentalised signification
but rather more
[2007-04-05 19:35:00] Lara: it started to follow its own logic I think
rather than ours
[2007-04-05 19:35:28] paul: to add another layer this wholoe process we
started collecting objects from the streets and markets of london
[2007-04-05 19:35:57] jem: Alot of book writers say things like that,
Lara
[2007-04-05 19:36:11] jem: good writers that is
[2007-04-05 19:36:18] paul: assembling the pieces together allowed us
to generate the 'plot lines' and the charcter traits of our lead character
[2007-04-05 19:36:40] Lara: I think in engaging with the complexity of
making took it into another space
[2007-04-05 19:37:02] Lara: the VJs became the storycollector in the kind
of analogy Paul had intended
[2007-04-05 19:37:09] jem: I would love to see some examples of this -
is there anything on the web?
[2007-04-05 19:37:24] Ana: as a traditional film, your work seems to have
a character. does it has a role to create coherence on the narrative
[2007-04-05 19:37:52] Lara: yes definitely and this comes I think from
the rejection of characters in most VJing
[2007-04-05 19:38:09] Lara: what is super orthodox in film is actually
extremely rare in VJing.....
[2007-04-05 19:38:21] Lara: apart from women dancing in fluffy bras etc
[2007-04-05 19:38:26] Lara: :/
[2007-04-05 19:38:31] Ana: ;-)
[2007-04-05 19:38:50] paul: i thnk the charcter definetley creates coherance
but unlike traditional film there wasn't really any driving conflict,
it was
[2007-04-05 19:38:58] paul: much more like window gazing in a way
[2007-04-05 19:39:20] Lara: yes I don't think we went far enough AT ALL
[2007-04-05 19:39:58] jem: Would it be like Soft Cinema by Manovich?
[2007-04-05 19:40:26] paul: i'm not familiar with soft cinema i'm afraid
[2007-04-05 19:41:02] Lara: we did think about Vjing in terms of Manovich's
logic of selection
[2007-04-05 19:41:05] paul: part of the importance for me was injecting
some real social exchange back into the spaces we were perfroming
[2007-04-05 19:41:18] jem: he's created a movie that is never the same
any time you play it
[2007-04-05 19:41:26] Lara: as Vjs we are super mediated by technology
in the creation and performance of the piece
[2007-04-05 19:41:41] brendan: www.softcinema.net/
[2007-04-05 19:41:46] jem: but it heavily relies on a static soundtrack
[2007-04-05 19:42:09] paul: Can i ask how do you feel a Vj mediates the
space they play in?
[2007-04-05 19:43:11] Lara: ok.. maybe not the right question
[2007-04-05 19:43:17] brendan: Or the space mediates the Vj or VJing?
[2007-04-05 19:43:28] Lara: I think Vjing is exactly like soft cinema
by its very nature
[2007-04-05 19:43:41] jem: yes I think so
[2007-04-05 19:43:59] Ana: The VJ sets up the visual mood of the space.
In the sense that influences people's experiences.
[2007-04-05 19:44:17] Lara: I think that the comparisons between filmmaking
and Vjing are not so helpful
[2007-04-05 19:44:36] Lara: although many feel it is the only way to 'talk'
VJing, the experience is so different
[2007-04-05 19:45:11] Lara: and that character, which would is orthodox
in film is interesting in Vjing, and the non-linearity which is
[2007-04-05 19:45:32] Lara: in Vjing then becomes interesting in films
[2007-04-05 19:45:47] Lara: but Vjing does not have its own language yet
which I really regret
[2007-04-05 19:46:02] Lara: we are speaking about our work still from
very much inside technology
[2007-04-05 19:46:24] Lara: we have found it very difficult to talk and
think about narrative in this respect
[2007-04-05 19:46:39] jem: Quite a few traditional filmmakers seem to
be exploring live cinema
[2007-04-05 19:46:55] Ana: without relating VJ to cinema? (Lara)
[2007-04-05 19:46:59] jem: have you seen Peter Greenaway's Tulse Luper?
[2007-04-05 19:47:08] Lara: yes I think you are right, this seems to be
a growing and interesting hybrid
[2007-04-05 19:47:46] Lara: Ana > yes, if you want to talk about Vjing
beyond technology you must borrow the language of film, almost
[2007-04-05 19:48:11] brendan: sorry had a bit of a crash there
[2007-04-05 19:48:22] Ben: Hello everyone. It seems to me (as someone
who writes) that narrative VJing is constrained by 'realtime'...
[2007-04-05 19:48:31] Lara: but I am also interested in the talk tomorrow
because I think that the Vj work is inseparable from the performer becoming
the w
[2007-04-05 19:48:35] Lara: ork
[2007-04-05 19:48:38] Lara: Hello Ben
[2007-04-05 19:48:56] paul: hello Ben
[2007-04-05 19:48:59] Ben: ...unlike a book or a painting, in which the
viewer is more at liberty to determine the time / path of the work.
[2007-04-05 19:49:20] Lara: but realtime is dynamism which I love
[2007-04-05 19:49:33] Lara: I can't be a painting in time, I think I am
quite selfish
[2007-04-05 19:50:00] Ben: I hesitated over the word 'constraint' - it's
just a feature. And constraint can be liberating of course.
[2007-04-05 19:50:16] Lara: I have found it interesting to think of VJing
in terms of ubiquitous computing...
[2007-04-05 19:50:28] Lara: in that it is a 'contunious partial attention'
thing -
[2007-04-05 19:50:46] Lara: perhaps for the audience it is the visual
equivalent of checking your email?
[2007-04-05 19:51:09] Lara: where a book is much more of a fully concentrated
thing where interpretation is geared in total focus
[2007-04-05 19:51:12] jem: Yes I'm sure you're right
[2007-04-05 19:51:21] Lara: in that respect I think you are right Ben
[2007-04-05 19:51:49] Lara: but I think Vjing exists because Vjs enjoy
doing it, rather than because the audience like it
[2007-04-05 19:52:43] Lara: that was a bit scandalous? nobody want to
tell me off?
[2007-04-05 19:52:50] Ben: Yes (about the book and total focus), but you
can put a book down and come back to it days / years later.
[2007-04-05 19:53:17] Lara: so we are talking about very different relationships
to time, and duration
[2007-04-05 19:53:20] paul: isn't vjig much the same, but in minutes/hours
[2007-04-05 19:53:21] jem: Ideally the audience should be VJs?
[2007-04-05 19:53:37] jem: all of them!
[2007-04-05 19:54:07] Lara: well at VJ festivals the audience mostly are
all VJs! but I am not saying that they should be,
[2007-04-05 19:54:21] Lara: just that I see from my perspective a strange
intersection
[2007-04-05 19:54:22] Ana: I'm not sure what you mean Paul
[2007-04-05 19:54:25] paul: i think the focus issue was something that
bothered us for along time with our early work, but in a way that demands
a differen
[2007-04-05 19:54:39] magda: in the club situation i usually responded
more to the music then to visuals, exept for one time, during the concert
of an argen
[2007-04-05 19:54:50] paul: t style on content that aren't grand narratives
where beginning, middles and ends are important
[2007-04-05 19:54:52] magda: argentinian band
[2007-04-05 19:55:11] magda: and i think it was because there was some
sort of narrative there
[2007-04-05 19:55:19] paul: how was that different to other experiances
magda?
[2007-04-05 19:55:26] paul: sorry, delay there.
[2007-04-05 19:55:36] magda: the images of the recent economic depression
[2007-04-05 19:56:12] paul: was it something that was very connected to
'characters' or was it very information based?
[2007-04-05 19:57:13] magda: i don't know what you mean by 'character'
, but it was more mood based i suppose
[2007-04-05 19:57:56] paul: well, lets say did it portray people that
you could connect to or was it the topical nature that grabbed your attention
[2007-04-05 19:57:59] magda: another time it was when ana played with
ben during the whot day in falmouth
[2007-04-05 19:58:17] magda: i think because the music and the images
created together sort of narrative
[2007-04-05 19:58:36] magda: which i see as a result of the way they work
together
[2007-04-05 19:59:21] Ana: we were by the time of that even very confortable
with our own material and with payed with each other.
[2007-04-05 19:59:22] paul: so the meaning was constructed within the
audience as much as anything?
[2007-04-05 20:00:01] magda: sorry paul, didn't see your question earlier.
well, i think i answered though it was probably in the fact that
[2007-04-05 20:00:08] Lara: perhaps it was so good because you had such
a good relationality together
[2007-04-05 20:00:18] Lara: VJing as a mode of 'being together'?
[2007-04-05 20:00:31] magda: music and visuals worked together for me
and together created a narrative
[2007-04-05 20:00:57] brendan: Barthes and the The Death of the VJ
[2007-04-05 20:01:43] paul: Ana, can you shed any light on your working
process?
[2007-04-05 20:01:49] Ben: Your earlier discussion asked whether it was
possible not to collaborate. With such a broad definition of narrative,...
[2007-04-05 20:01:50] jem: Would that be an existentialist narrrative
in that different people would see different narratives, Magda?
[2007-04-05 20:01:55] brendan: Sorry folks but we'll have to stop the
documentation soon, but as we started a bit late we can carry on
[2007-04-05 20:01:59] brendan: a bit
[2007-04-05 20:02:00] Ben: ...is it possible for VJing not to be narrative?
[2007-04-05 20:02:28] Ana: Magda is right it was a whole experience -
music images and the rest of the people around.
[2007-04-05 20:02:32] Lara: very possible for VJing not to be narrative
[2007-04-05 20:02:39] paul: i thnk narrative interpretation is very hard
to avoid
[2007-04-05 20:02:43] Ana: (I have problems here with the word audience)
[2007-04-05 20:03:06] magda: i am not sure about that. because i know
that sometimes i don't see any narrative
[2007-04-05 20:03:13] Lara: There can be so much randomness in Vjs' work
[2007-04-05 20:03:21] Ana: eve if it is just colors
[2007-04-05 20:03:28] Ana: or abstract figuration?
[2007-04-05 20:03:51] Lara: I think abstraction can definitely be narrative
- do you?
[2007-04-05 20:04:08] Ben: Modes such as repetition, deviation, coupure;
they all seem to imply a narrative template from which they are deviations.
[2007-04-05 20:04:08] Ana: in a way. yes.
[2007-04-05 20:04:18] Lara: All those lovely early animations Ruttman
etc, I love them
[2007-04-05 20:04:46] brendan: Next time we all come with different models
of 'narrative' maybe?
[2007-04-05 20:05:14] Lara: but if the content is random can the repetition
of form generate narrative?
[2007-04-05 20:05:35] Lara: we will have to ask Brendan the outcomes of
this web cam session at Narrative Lab @ AVIT05
[2007-04-05 20:06:04] Ben: They can generate the impression of a narrative
I think.
[2007-04-05 20:06:17] brendan: Well that was almost a mirror of your work
with storytelling
[2007-04-05 20:06:18] jem: I've got to go now - That was a really good
discussion. Thanks very much Lara and Paul
[2007-04-05 20:06:22] jem: but please could you put me on your mailing
list if you have one - info@jemmackay.co.uk?
[2007-04-05 20:06:35] jem: Take care
[2007-04-05 20:06:43] Lara: sure please come to see us at our narrative
lab nights in London
[2007-04-05 20:06:51] brendan: using formal time and composition and sequences
of cinema
[2007-04-05 20:06:54] Lara: it would be nice to meet you again!
[2007-04-05 20:07:02] brendan: but live without a character
[2007-04-05 20:07:31] Ben: I know we've run out of time. Thanks for the
discussion.
[2007-04-05 20:07:31] paul: Thanks for goming Jem
[2007-04-05 20:07:35] brendan: See you Jem
[2007-04-05 20:08:01] Lara: tell us more Brendan, I never got to ask you
what you thought after
[2007-04-05 20:08:13] brendan: we will have to close now, yours, Uncle
Jo
[2007-04-05 20:08:31] brendan: I will it went in a very unexpected way
[2007-04-05 20:08:33] Ana: Hope to see you al tomorrow for next chat.
thank you for joining us in the chat.
[2007-04-05 20:08:38] brendan: which was great
[2007-04-05 20:08:48] Lara: oh dear we should not have talked about ourselves
so much
[2007-04-05 20:08:55] Ana: and thanks to Paul and Lara for moderating
ths really good chat
[2007-04-05 20:08:57] Lara: now we have no time for brendan
[2007-04-05 20:09:04] Lara: we must do it again :)
[2007-04-05 20:09:04] brendan: No that was excellent
[2007-04-05 20:09:24] Lara: perhaps we should look at some specific questions
next time?
[2007-04-05 20:09:24] magda: thank you all
[2007-04-05 20:09:40] paul: bye magda
[2007-04-05 20:09:50] Lara: thanks Brendan and Ana |
