| This is the main text chat.
(times in PST)
[12:27:48 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Hi Christian!
[12:28:32 PM] fe2cruz says: hi. lucy?
[12:28:51 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Yep - it's Lucy - where are
you?
[12:29:03 PM] fe2cruz says: yorba linda, CA
[12:29:29 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: aah, I'm in LA, we may be the
closest in geography of all the aethernauts
[12:30:23 PM] fe2cruz says: probably, we get the best time slots too i
think
[12:30:35 PM] fe2cruz says: not too early not too late
[12:30:47 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: yes - middle of the day is good
[12:31:55 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Camille, who is moderating a
video chat with Brazilian artists and is at the venue in Vancouver, is
trying to figure out how we should do this - I suggested that I invite
you and whoever else is online to text conference and them and they can
project the screen - will try
[12:32:23 PM] fe2cruz says: that sounds good
[12:32:56 PM] fe2cruz says: but you and i won't see the video channel?
[12:35:04 PM] Remote Control Monkey added aether9, Camille Baker, thom_edison,
VJ Theory to this chat
[12:36:46 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: don't think so, Christian
[12:37:00 PM] VJ Theory says: Hi Lucy
[12:37:19 PM] fe2cruz says: i have most of the other aether people in
my list, would you like me to add them to this chat too?
[12:37:48 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Hi! Brendan/Ana! Christian (fe2cruz)
- yes, could you add them? if anyone is awake...
[12:38:22 PM] VJ Theory says: hello christian.
[12:38:44 PM] Camille Baker says: ok but we can't really do vmultiple
voice chat out of one computer here
[12:38:56 PM] fe2cruz says: hello, vj
[12:38:58 PM] Camille Baker says: but good work on the mulit-text
[12:39:20 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: That makes sense - I think the
text chat will be better, if there are multiple participants - could be
a cluttered voice chat!
[12:39:27 PM] Camille Baker says: oh by the way hi everyon - I'm still
sorting out tech so bare with us
[12:39:59 PM] fe2cruz says: yes text will be easier for adding people
as they log into skype
[12:40:18 PM] Remote Control Monkey has changed the chat topic to "VJ
Theory Let's Chat""
[12:41:16 PM] fe2cruz added alejood, cym, fefifolios, ideacritik, la,
ion, metamolusque, fougeras nathalie, paula vélez to this chat
[12:42:48 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: shall we set some format for
the chat? was thinking that before we type maybe we should identify our
name/location - so that viewers could get a sense of who is talking -
also would you like us to give a 1-2 line introduction to ourselves? ex
for text: Lucy/League of Imaginary Scientists in LA: then whatever I say...
[12:44:42 PM] VJ Theory says: sorry to be away. we are trying to sort
out things on the video chat
[12:44:48 PM] VJ Theory says: be back to you soon.
[12:52:53 PM] VJ Theory says: Lucy, could you pass the text we went to
you today to everyone. it may be easier to follow us?
[12:53:43 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: sounds good - we'll follow your
questions/promts - take cues from you as the moderator
[12:53:56 PM] VJ Theory says: cool
[12:54:02 PM] fe2cruz says: Christiaan/CA:will do
[12:55:34 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Info from VJ Theory on the overall
VJ Theory conference as well as today's subject to follow:
We thought that it would be helpful to give you a more extended text of
what we will be talking about later. Especially to those who will follow
the discussion by text.
We may add a few more questions and should you have any suggestions, please
feel free to send them to us.
+ What is VJTheory (brief presentation)
vjtheory.net is an online community of VJs and artists who reflect on
their work, linking practices such as realtime installation, performance
and political praxis and share their ideas with others in the community.
This community actively discusses and reflects on philosophy and theory
related with VJing and realtime interaction. The project has been running
for over two years and has built up an extensive collection of work which
can help other practitioners to critically examine their practice. Through
publishing articles, interviews and reviews, the project is able to distribute
the work of the community and organise online debates in areas which are
highlighted by our contributors. We would like to motivate people to reflect
theoretically on their practice.There is a lot of work being done and
VJing is so diverse, but there is not a language that is unique to it
or a vocabulary. There is an immense diversity of approaches to this practice
and we hope something relevant in the equally diverse theoretical and
philosophical approaches is being developed.
+ Small history (what have we been doing so far)
The original idea for the project came from the Narrative Lab workshops
at AVIT (Brighton in 2002 and Birmingham in 2004) where Brendan presented
some ideas and organized workshops where participants could present ongoing
work. A lot of good ideas were debated. There was also an obvious need
for written texts which would inform VJ practice and related issues, from
a philosophical and theoretical perspective. Some of the people involved
were students trying to feed their practice as VJs into their studies,
some others were practitioners interested in reflecting on their own and
similar practices. They would struggle to find written documentation to
support and refer to. This also became apparent in the college where Ana
and Brendan teach and in their own work.
From there we sent out a call for papers in June 2004 to compile a collection
of texts into a book about VJing and realtime interaction. This turned
into a website and the website grew to become as important as the book.
Now we have a growing community, discussing theory, philosophy and ideas,
active in the development of the website.
+ Community (developing and keep the community active and interested)
- Website
Is through the web site that we develop this community. It became a space
for developing projects that gathers together individuals and groups related
with VJ Theory.
It is divided in two major sections:
Book, which has information on the book to be published with the most
relevant texts we have received on VJing and real time interaction.
The other section is divided into four areas, this is the part of the
growing database of work sent by and produced online by the community.
Art: has reviews of work or projects.
Interviews: with practitioners reflecting on their practice. These interviews
allow contributors bring up questions, references, influences and ideas
which come out of their work.
Texts: the more theoretical texts, which reflect on the practice, linking
this with relevant theories and philosophical perspectives.
References: list of links to relevant information, for example research
groups, courses, theories, theorists and other related texts. We also
link to other comunities and websites where relevant information can be
found.
- Small projects: 'What is Vjing and realtime interaction?' and 'Let's
Chat'
So far we did two projects which aimed at engaging the community to exchange
directly (without our filtering) ideas.
'What is Vjing and realtime interaction?' is an ongoing call for definitions
of this diverse area. We are looking to have a broader description of
VJing and realtime interaction to add to the existing one. Rather than
reifying a single definition,we wanted the contributions to generate a
fluid description.
'Let's Chat' was a series of six chat events, each moderated by a contributor
and with a specific theme. These chats were a starting point that brought
to the surface a lot of interesting questions for debate. Themes from
the chats: authorship, technology, networks and collaboration, narrative,
ideology, performer.
+ Links with other communities with overlapping interests (upcoming projects)
After the 'Let's Chat' sessions, we got a lot of people sending us e-mails
saying they would like these debates to carry on, and this is what we
have been looking at as a future project. To find ways, new projects where
people can develop the themes from the chats and possibly new ones for
a longer length of time.
We have also put a proposal to Rhizome Commissions (communities) to develop
a project which allows people to create theoretical texts collaboratively.
+ Questions we would like to put to the audience:
Ideas for projects and ways in which the community can be developed (input
from the audience)
- In which ways could VJ Theory be developed to create a space which people
became actively involved?
- In which ways could we put theorists and practitioners together to
reflect on the practice? (theoretical VJing, reflective VJing)
[1:00:05 PM] Camille Baker says: ok Brendan will introduce VJ Theory in
a moment - to the video chat folks
[1:00:16 PM] Camille Baker says: and then I will take over moderating
this chat
[1:03:25 PM] aether9 says: hi all, here aether9 HQ, geneva, switzerland.
[1:03:36 PM] Camille Baker says: hi there
[1:03:46 PM] Camille Baker says: looks like were' starting the video side
[1:04:24 PM] aether9 says: should we be watching somebody's video feed?
[1:04:45 PM] fe2cruz says: no video feed for us, we are part of the multi/chat
[1:04:53 PM] Camille Baker says: you can't - just hold on - did you have
chance to read the intro
[1:04:59 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Hi Manuel, we have a separate
chat going on that Camille will be monitoring - more info above in the
long text area.
[1:05:18 PM] Camille Baker says: maybe if you just came on now you can
read it
[1:05:25 PM] Camille Baker says: I can repost if need be
[1:05:42 PM] aether9 says: ok i'm reading..
[1:06:42 PM] Camille Baker says: let me know if I need to repost –
we're introducing ourselves
[1:06:52 PM] Camille Baker says: so maybe we can do that here as well
[1:08:02 PM] VJ Theory says: yes. that would be a good idea. will you
guys like to introduce yourselves too?
[1:08:09 PM] Camille Baker says: yes
[1:08:36 PM] Camille Baker says: So how about you folks go first - as
I'm multi-tasking her
[1:08:38 PM] Camille Baker says: here
[1:08:42 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: I (Lucy HG from the League of
Imaginary Scientists - based in LA) contributed text to the VJ Theory
book and have been thinking about my own and others' realtime practice.
The various text participants in this chat collaborated on a realtime
interactive narrative entitled "Aether" (http://1904.cc/aether/)
in early May. In all, there are nine artists or collaborative groups located
around the globe. Since our live performance - the 9 remote performers
have continued our discussion on the development of realtime and interactive
narratives. This first project was presented at the Mapping Festival in
Geneva. The other participants will introduce themselves...
[1:09:35 PM] fe2cruz says: Christiaan Cruz - creative peer participant
from Southern California. Also a contributor to the "Aether"
project
[1:10:40 PM] aether9 says: Manuel Schmalstieg - project coordinator of
"Aether" project and chairman of N3krozoft Media Group.
[1:11:32 PM] Camille Baker says: I'm Camille and I run a media org called
The Escape Artists
[1:11:59 PM] Camille Baker says: and am a PhD student at the University
of East London by distance
[1:12:25 PM] Camille Baker says: and working on a project involving live
VJing using / on mobile phones
[1:13:14 PM] Camille Baker says: Manuel can you say more about N3krozoft
Media Group
[1:13:56 PM] Camille Baker says: Ana is talking about the history of VJ
Theory and the book
[1:14:45 PM] Camille Baker says: hello?
[1:15:00 PM] VJ Theory says: carry on camille
[1:15:35 PM] aether9 says: N3krozoft LTD = Retrofuturistic Media Conglomerat.
Tag line: Security through Obscurity. Related URLs: www.n3krozoft.com
www.x-xx---x.info www.1904.cc
[1:16:03 PM] Camille Baker says: Can people perhaps tell us about their
interests in VJ Theory while Ana introduces projects to the video group
[1:16:09 PM] Camille Baker says: thanks Manuel
[1:17:54 PM] Camille Baker says: text people - what's up?
[1:18:24 PM] Camille Baker says: Lucy, Patricia are you still there?
[1:18:52 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: My (Lucy/The League of Imaginary
Scientists) interest in VJ Theory stems from the desire to find meaning
in interactive technology - so that the technology does not overwhelm
but facilitates a narrative or idea. In order to do this successfully,
I think the media developments must be well considered, and it seems that
VJ Theory is a forum for doing this.
[1:19:51 PM] aether9 says: Mostly we (n3kr.ltd) are interested in re-analyzing
our daily media practices through a historical / analytical (and therefore
also theoretical) angle - see Dead Media Project as an example of such
approach.
[1:20:45 PM] fe2cruz says: Events like this one, the book, and the evolving
dialogue make for a great opportunity to develop this new community
[1:22:08 PM] Camille Baker says: excellent
[1:22:16 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Lucy/the League - Some more info
on the League - the League of Imaginary Scientists (www.imaginaryscience.org)
brings together artists, technologists, and scientists to perform various
sci/tech "experiments." The Aether project coordinated by N3krozoft
fit well into the League's practice, as this narrative borrowed from mythology,
science, and technology, to construct a layered narrative carried out
collectively in 9 video streams. Aether's role in Greek mythology, ether
as a gas, and the ethernet became themes in the broader narrative. The
theory behind our interactive involvement, I think, is quite tied to this
idea of experimentation and (almost) organic development.
[1:22:47 PM] fe2cruz says: Chats streaming and conferencing on an international
level is very exciting.
[1:23:32 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Lucy - yes, as is the whole process
of a community-based narrative, or visual development
[1:23:43 PM] fe2cruz says: Connectivity, performance, interactionŠ
[1:23:52 PM] Camille Baker says: Can people perhaps tell us about their
interests in the VJ Theory community
[1:24:00 PM] Camille Baker says: and project
[1:24:54 PM] fe2cruz says: The community is a tremendous resource...
[1:26:03 PM] fe2cruz says: It keeps practitioners involved and connected.
[1:26:47 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: The VJ Theory project (http://www.vjtheory.net/)
pushed me to interview and start a discussion with various media artists
about their thoughts on their own process and
projects. I found that the artists perhaps had not been asked to consider
the philosophical/theoretical implications of interactivity, and the discussion
made us all think more carefully about how and when to implement various
technologies...
[1:27:08 PM] fe2cruz says: It enables a rapid development similar to the
accelerated growth of other internet phenomena like p2p.
[1:28:33 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Doesn't it also make perfect
sense that digital artists be connected through digital means - thus,
an online/chat/video community?
[1:29:56 PM] aether9 says: personal interpretation: VJ theory -> link
between two concepts, the total(itarian) seductivity of the realtime control
of media - call it the hype aspect of the vj community - which is at the
same time transporting a form of amorality (hedonism - links to techno
culture / fashion / datadandysm / using the most powerful/ state-of-the-art/
expensive hardware / processor intensive software) - a counterside could
be the theoretical/analytical point of view (being conscious of the ephemeric
state of the medium, the short lifespan of hardware, the possibilities
of alternative/ non-digital low-fi technology, awareness of the fact of
walking along the footsteps of moholy-nagy, athanasius kirchner, dandy
warhole, n.j.
paik, netochka nezvanova and other pragmatic visionaries)...
[1:33:04 PM] fe2cruz says: I'm very happy that Foucault and Deleuze are
refenced
[1:33:11 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy/League) yes - many interesting
dualities, control/chaos, techno/organic - the idea of technological distance
and creative or communicative intimacy conflated
[1:36:58 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy/League) regarding hedonism,
there is also the strange parallel of creative interactive technology
and current remote war practice/mentality - the political and emotional
distance though we are technologically close
[1:37:00 PM] Camille Baker says: i'm intersted in what you are discussing
around being conscious of the ephemeric
[1:37:30 PM] Camille Baker says: and the ideas of technological distance
and creative or communicative intimacy conflated
[1:38:55 PM] Camille Baker says: but my brain is split in this setting
[1:39:41 PM] Camille Baker says: Julie here is saying that there are very
few VJ artists in the world and without this technology we wouldn't othewise
meet
[1:40:13 PM] Camille Baker says: Brendan is talking about the democratization
of technologies now enabling artists
[1:41:09 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) using the digital method also
uses less resources
[1:41:17 PM] Camille Baker says: yes
[1:41:44 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: personally (Lucy), I find interactive
narrative - collaboration with others through realtime interaction - much
more rewarding than live performance without that additional layer - the
lack of control and the ephemeral nature of the interactive collaboration
is somehow more...
[1:42:01 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) Its amazing once you use these
and similar resources how fast your process will change.
[1:42:09 PM] Camille Baker says: interesting - I'm interested in how we
can facilitate both
[1:42:26 PM] Camille Baker says: that was referencing lucy
[1:42:48 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: certainly a more democratic process,
right? no one entitly can control a nine-party remote collaboration!
[1:43:47 PM] Camille Baker says: right and since i'm intersted in collective
consciousness - what about even more than 9?
[1:44:05 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) Chance, interplay, the more layers
the better
[1:44:39 PM] Camille Baker says: yes layers and more layers - but layers
implies being on top of but I'm intersted in intermingling
[1:45:01 PM] Camille Baker says: I'm pulling us off in another direction
however
[1:45:08 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: entwine
[1:45:17 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) well for aether 9 boxes just looks
the best, but with digital communities we get the extended dialog after
the performance
[1:45:29 PM] Camille Baker says: Ana is asking about how people waht ot
contribute and collaborate via VJ THEORY
[1:45:52 PM] Camille Baker says: (entwine is nice)
[1:46:18 PM] Camille Baker says: or how can they make their website more
open and go beyond text
[1:46:27 PM] aether9 says: another interesting project in the realtime
visual collaboration field is "upstage". it uses the concept
of intermingled layers rather than the grid structure of "aether"
[1:46:28 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) these discussions are
ideal - pushing me to really consider the reasons for implementing the
interactivity
[1:46:54 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) yes beyond text, because its limited
[1:47:21 PM] aether9 says: a proposal for vj theory website: there needs
to be a new generation of wikis...
[1:47:44 PM] Camille Baker says: ok I'll pass that on
[1:48:00 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) even in its early experimental
stages aether managed to accomplish a great deal with just 9 boxes of
images
[1:48:16 PM] aether9 says: ... wikis where users can input text and images,
which are then rearranged in a layered, dense but still logical way.
[1:48:20 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) Ironically, I find myspace
and online communities really oppressive, yet I value connecting up, as
in this (almost old-school telegraph/type) format
[1:48:35 PM] Camille Baker says: ok they are trying to address this
[1:48:38 PM] Camille Baker says: ...
[1:49:14 PM] Camille Baker says: they are saying that that's similar to
what they are doing around collaborative writing
[1:50:26 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: what is this process of collaborative
writing - is it like this chat? or more formal - as in passing text back
and forth...
[1:51:05 PM] Camille Baker says: and then it becomes a multi-text rather
than collaborative - which is what they want and Julie is asking if they
have foudn any open source software
[1:51:10 PM] Camille Baker says: that they can use
[1:51:57 PM] Camille Baker says: but they have found nothing at the moment
[1:52:06 PM] aether9 says: they / they (please more specific)...
[1:52:11 PM] Camille Baker says: they want to pay someone to help out
with that
[1:52:12 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: strangely, final draft for screenwriting
I believe allows collective authorship - it references which authors update/edit
and when - but I wonder if this defeats the purpose...by giving "credit"
[1:52:37 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (They must be Ana and Brendan)
[1:52:47 PM] fe2cruz says: Yes, I used to share scripts with lots of autors
using the many screenwriting programs
[1:53:06 PM] Camille Baker says: yes they is Ana and Brendan
[1:54:08 PM] fe2cruz says: community text limited to exchange: BBS mailing
lists SMS IRC...
[1:54:22 PM] Camille Baker says: yes
[1:54:46 PM] fe2cruz says: You can't name an author
[1:54:58 PM] fe2cruz says: Its the community
[1:55:06 PM] aether9 says: SubEthaEdit is advertised as "the world's
best text collaboration engine"... but it's commercialware.
[1:55:24 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: any historical references to
collective authorship? screenplay yes, also theology texts in general...oral
histories - collective authorship based in internet stemming back to oral
narratives
[1:55:55 PM] Camille Baker says: i think Brendan is concerned about making
sure there's academic rigour balanced with artistic practice in the collaborative
wokr - is that correct Brendan?
[1:56:20 PM] Camille Baker says: he says yes
[1:56:26 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) and that the collaborative
writing will drive more theory-integrated practice?
[1:56:33 PM] Camille Baker says: he hates the term academic rigour
[1:56:39 PM] VJ Theory says: nos as such and also I hate the sentence
'academic rigour'
[1:56:52 PM] VJ Theory says: and analyze and question it
[1:56:54 PM] Camille Baker says: and he thinks we need to take these traditions
and analyze them and ...
[1:57:48 PM] Camille Baker says: sorry trying to listen - carry on Lucy
[1:58:46 PM] fe2cruz says: Stories need listeners and the best story tellers
are the best listeners. Why not make everyone tell the story
[2:01:47 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: open writing - very much like
open source - a reference to Sergei Tret¹iakov, Russian writer who
died in
Stalin¹s purges - his manifesto called for the ³deindividualization
and deprofessionalization of the writer.² He thought of a literary
assembly line with teams of authors, much like early efforts to create
the encyclopedia
[2:03:05 PM] Camille Baker says: so I want to bring this back to VJ practice
and how it relates specifically to how we can contribute to VJ Theory
and collabrating in non-textal ways as well
[2:03:26 PM] Camille Baker says: Brendan is discussing the concern about
the commodification of the VJ
[2:03:40 PM] Camille Baker says: and how we can analyze this development
[2:06:16 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: as in - taking the brand name
out of it? deindividualization...
[2:08:18 PM] Camille Baker says: no like exploiting VJs
[2:08:25 PM] Camille Baker says: and their work for coke ads
[2:10:10 PM] Camille Baker says: so one idea for collaborative project
might be to create a video and post it and then it gets re-edited and
reposted and reinterpreted and then keep in goign in an on-going remix
and another idea was like an exquisite corpse
[2:10:30 PM] Camille Baker says: so something gets added on the end of
each version
[2:10:40 PM] aether9 says: if an artwork can be exploited for a coke ad,
the artwork is maybe more to blame than coke.
[2:10:44 PM] aether9 says: ...
[2:10:56 PM] aether9 says: i come back to the storytelling term... the
story can be an ingredient, but one of the core principles of vjing is
that there cannot be a linear flow, the story (if there is any) will inevitably
be fragmented, shattered, elements will repeat endlessly while other sequences
pass by in a flash - the story will be on the verge of intelligibility.
so we could question the fact if vjs can be indeed called storytellers,
maybe rather storybenders, storyscratchers or storyfragmenters...
[2:11:29 PM] fe2cruz says: "like and exquisite corpse" or just
like a bohm dialog image after image, video after video
[2:12:02 PM] Camille Baker says: no like exquistite corpse
[2:12:10 PM] aether9 says: this is one of the points the Aether9 project
searches the develop, looking for practicable ways of communicating a
structured content through a form that is improvisational, open and unpredictable.
[2:13:29 PM] Camille Baker says: sure could be image after image or video
after image after sound etc
[2:13:43 PM] Camille Baker says: ya its a good idea
[2:14:03 PM] Camille Baker says: (responding to the last post)
[2:14:26 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) every creative culture
runs the risk of exploitation - I agree with Manuel that to some extent
we can control what companies co-opt, and that the corporatization of
the original idea is what pushes artists to do something else, always.
[2:14:59 PM] Camille Baker says: true
[2:15:30 PM] fe2cruz says: Hopefully the community is moving so rapidly
we will have already passed the project that has been exploited by the
masses
[2:15:32 PM] Camille Baker says: a question was asked also about what
happens when a video for remix goes out to the community what happens
then
[2:16:11 PM] Camille Baker says: and what happens in comunities - should
they be closed or open
[2:16:29 PM] Camille Baker says: then there are issues about how artists
feel about copyright?
[2:16:48 PM] Camille Baker says: do they feel "ownership" of
their piece
[2:17:30 PM] fe2cruz says: For my own work, it would be an honor to get
remixed by a community
[2:18:08 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) even our aether collaboration,
as this chat, was by invitation only - collective collaboration that is
filtered - and, likely better, though less egalitarian, as a result...
[2:18:41 PM] Camille Baker says: Julie is also saying that the first thing
is also to try to let people even know about this form of art as art not
just eye candy
[2:18:53 PM] Camille Baker says: so outreach is important
[2:19:02 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: "better" - I know,
dangerousto use that word, like "rigor"
[2:19:17 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) Much like software it is very
easy to put a creative commons license to the media you share digitally
[2:19:17 PM] aether9 says: Lucy, it was a quite "random" type
of invitation....
[2:20:06 PM] Camille Baker says: to create community and people shouldn't
feel compelled to hold onto something - their wokr in a community or have
ownership in a collaborative project as oppsed to a book where owndership
might be more important
[2:20:20 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) regarding Aether, I may
be wrong - not so filtered, you think?
[2:21:27 PM] fe2cruz says: well filtered in the performative aspect of
a limited number of boxes, but in the project as a whole very open. There
were many bodies involved outisde of those 9 squares
[2:21:34 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: so big question, with collective
authorship of texts and creative collaborations, we all still identify
our roles in the creative process - so the participation still comes down
to the individual credit?
[2:24:43 PM] aether9 says: one comment: about the whole cadavre-exquise
/ remixology / creativity by the community - thing... everybody who tried
it knows about the possibility of creating something fascinating but also
the danger of creating something uttelry boring (because the personal
obsessions and neuroses of one creative individual are lacking)... democracy
being a double-sided sword in the field of art
[2:25:02 PM] Camille Baker says: Brendan says there no issues about community
restriction - from his anarchist background
[2:26:30 PM] Camille Baker says: a question here was if VJ Theory have
made a connection to fax art, mail art etc
[2:26:49 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: a scientific aside: in the last
ten years neuroscience studies (brain imaging/recording of brain activity)
indicate that human beings - women in particular - are wired to collaborate.
When given tasks that involve collaborative efforts, the human brain activates
reward centers. In effect, neurotransmitters in the brain reward us with
pleasure for ³working well with others.²
[2:28:12 PM] Camille Baker says: interesting Lucy - we shoudl talk offline
or separate as we have similar interests it seems
[2:29:37 PM] Camille Baker says: Julie asks when someone does visual performance,
why is it that video is secondary to the music - whereas in single channel
video (video art) music is secondary
[2:30:30 PM] Camille Baker says: Brendan say that is changing as some
artists are exploring the reverse in the UK but mostly it is the opposite
[2:32:34 PM] Camille Baker says: ana is giving some interesting examples
of te VJ artists putting temselves more into the visuals and the music
being secondary but also mentioning that at the a VJ festival there were
still musicians on stage but the VJ's in the background
[2:33:14 PM] Camille Baker says: and this is a problem that needs to be
addressed but organizers either don't notice it as a problem or haven't
figured out how to address it
[2:34:26 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) There are celebrity VJs
[2:34:43 PM] Camille Baker says: but they still sit in the back
[2:35:16 PM] fe2cruz says: and hardly ever lit with a spotlight
[2:35:20 PM] thom_edison says: you can dance to dj's, not vj's, and the
vj's usually perform alongside vj's.
[2:35:26 PM] Camille Baker says: Brendan is talkign about Ana doing something
on the website about the role of the VJ as performer and how to put them
in the forefront (is that correect Ana)?
[2:35:30 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) VJ performance in
"new music" - as in contemporary classical - also has a long
history (since late
60s) - current performances that come to mind include the Kronos Quartet.
In
these, the video often is quite integrated into the performance, with
a pier relationship between image and sound - perhaps because the music
video relationship is not established for that genre
[2:36:04 PM] Camille Baker says: good example - but not the norm?
[2:36:46 PM] Camille Baker says: Ana is talkign about how they attended
the Mapping Festival in Geneva recently
[2:36:49 PM] VJ Theory says: yes camille.that's it.
[2:36:53 PM] thom_edison says: if vj's aren't performing in the context
of dance parties, where they will always remain in the dark, i don't quite
understand why the word "vj" is still used.
[2:37:10 PM] VJ Theory says: sorry I can't folow both chats at the same
time.
[2:37:19 PM] VJ Theory says: I'm trying though
[2:37:29 PM] Camille Baker says: right so that's perhaps the point- take
VJs out of the party environment and find ways to highlight their work
[2:37:35 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: The Aether project premiered
at the Mapping Festival in Geneva...
[2:37:58 PM] Camille Baker says: my question is if you take away the music
but keep the liveness is it no longer VJING?
[2:38:03 PM] VJ Theory says: thom, that is a definition rather broad that
one of the VJ
[2:39:01 PM] Camille Baker says: well Julie and other use other terms
– like visual performers, live cinema
[2:39:40 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) yes most other practitioners do
use other terms
[2:39:45 PM] Camille Baker says: or performance video
[2:39:53 PM] aether9 says: vj has simply the advantage of being easy to
pronounce...
[2:40:03 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) definitions can be restrictive,
and have strong underlying connotations - VJ conjures something very different
from live cinema - which seems more narrative based
[2:40:05 PM] Camille Baker says: or easily recognized
[2:40:21 PM] Camille Baker says: understood generally
[2:41:13 PM] Camille Baker says: not all cinema is narrative however
[2:41:16 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: though also references a
specific scene/movement
[2:41:20 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) easier to bring kids to a vj festival
than a visual live perfomative cinema showcase
[2:41:32 PM] Camille Baker says: true
[2:41:43 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: (Lucy) and much more
difficult to bring your grandma to a vj festival than a live cinema showcase
[2:42:30 PM] fe2cruz says: but my grandma loved everthing i did not matter
what it was called
[2:43:14 PM] Camille Baker says: any more questions - we're about to fold
otherwise
[2:44:42 PM] fe2cruz says: (Christiaan) any last new announcements or
developments from the Vjtheory.net project?
[2:46:17 PM] Camille Baker says: no they are just saying that the Rhizome
commission will announce the software (?) or other work form VJ THeory
soon
[2:46:35 PM] fe2cruz says: great!
[2:46:59 PM] Camille Baker says: Topher wanted to know how they might
do fundraising and perhasp the VJ community could donate to Vj Theory
[2:47:01 PM] VJ Theory says: please look at Rhizome's call for commisions
to know more about our proposal
[2:47:31 PM] Camille Baker says: and Brendan and Ana were reticent to
ask for donations
[2:48:22 PM] Camille Baker says: how do you want ot end / or continue
this after today but also right now
[2:49:08 PM] Camille Baker says: Ana wants to ask us in Vancouver and
LA to get back to them with ideas and project and new ways of participating
[2:49:09 PM] aether9 says: it's getting late here so i'm folding too.
it was a pleasure to attend this discussion and i'll be looking for news
on vj
theory site. also more aether9 performances are upcoming - news will be
posted on 1904.cc/aether ... bye.
[2:49:28 PM] Camille Baker says: including us just chatting amonst ourselves
but also contributing to the website
[2:49:31 PM] Camille Baker says: and book
[2:49:44 PM] fe2cruz says: We sould say our thanks first to everyone involved
and then discuss how to continue
[2:49:47 PM] Camille Baker says: and if I am up for it (camille) if I
can make the chat available
[2:49:51 PM] Camille Baker says: yes I will
[2:50:04 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: Thanks! - Lucy/the League –
looking forward to extended conversation...
[2:50:05 PM] Camille Baker says: and Ana will try follow up on the comments
[2:50:19 PM] Camille Baker says: and if everyone can provide their emails
[2:50:23 PM] thom_edison says: thank you & good bye to all from brussels
[2:50:27 PM] Camille Baker says: so she can follwo up with you all
[2:50:44 PM] fe2cruz says: perfect christiaan.cruz@gmail.com
[2:50:48 PM] Camille Baker says: magda wants to continue chats online
[2:51:23 PM] Remote Control Monkey says: you can post to the aether list
and email everyone at once by mailing to aether@1904.cc
[2:52:18 PM] fe2cruz says: have a good night boris, manuel
[2:52:37 PM] Camille Baker says: good night/ afternoon all !
[2:53:00 PM] VJ Theory says: Thanks to all of you that participated on
the text chat
[2:53:05 PM] fe2cruz says: its midnight over there
[2:53:16 PM] VJ Theory says: sorry we couldn't follow as clsely as we
would like
[2:53:37 PM] VJ Theory says: hope we do a few more of these chats at some
point soon
[2:53:58 PM] Camille Baker says: Topher wants to continue sometihng here
in terms of creating an on-going discussion - starting now
[2:54:01 PM] fe2cruz says: yes, more chats would be great. looking forward
to it
[2:54:21 PM] fe2cruz says: and of course whatever dialog we can create
now
[2:54:30 PM] Camille Baker says: that we can share with you all later
[2:55:07 PM] cym says: goodnight
[2:55:19 PM] VJ Theory says: bye everyone.
[2:55:22 PM] fe2cruz says: night cym
[2:55:33 PM] VJ Theory says: send us postcards!
[2:55:34 PM] fe2cruz says: bye brendan & ana
[2:55:44 PM] Camille Baker says: bye
[2:55:55 PM] VJ Theory says: thank you so much camille
[2:56:08 PM] VJ Theory says: for moderating the chat
[2:56:41 PM] Camille Baker says: no worries - I hope it was what you hoped
[2:56:52 PM] VJ Theory says: it was really good
[2:57:01 PM] VJ Theory says: we ended up loosing mos of it
[2:57:06 PM] VJ Theory says: most of it I mean
[2:57:20 PM] VJ Theory says: would you please send us the whole chat?
[2:57:25 PM] Camille Baker says: that's ok - I'll send you the transcript
- maybe it was good that i typed a lot of it out
[2:57:31 PM] VJ Theory says: that is, if you have it. of course.
[2:57:35 PM] Camille Baker says: yes I will
[2:57:45 PM] VJ Theory says: it definitivelly was.
[2:57:52 PM] fe2cruz says: i can email you all the whole text after we
finish
[2:58:03 PM] VJ Theory says: yes, that would be great
[2:58:18 PM] fe2cruz says: my skype has the whole chat logged
[2:58:19 PM] VJ Theory says: i'm going to leave the chat now.
[2:58:27 PM] Camille Baker says: can you wait til later though ?
[2:58:37 PM] Camille Baker says: the conversation is continuing here
[2:58:46 PM] fe2cruz says: yes once everything is done
[2:58:53 PM] VJ Theory says: shall we saty for a bit longer then?
[2:59:02 PM] VJ Theory says: stay
[2:59:08 PM] Camille Baker says: ok thanks everyone
[2:59:32 PM] Camille Baker says: no that's ok - its late for you - I'll
try write what we talka botu here as well
[2:59:38 PM] Camille Baker says: about
[3:05:19 PM] fe2cruz says: camille, were you still going to continue?
[3:10:45 PM] Camille Baker says: i'm here but i was talkign sorry
[3:11:24 PM] fe2cruz says: oh thats ok, i'll be here its still early
[3:12:21 PM] Camille Baker says: we're continuing "off-line"
- we're talking about baRRIER TO BUILDING COMMNITY (oops sorry about the
caps)
[3:12:47 PM] Camille Baker says: like academic versus party vj, versus
artist
[3:13:10 PM] fe2cruz says: thats ok take your time,
[3:13:57 PM] Camille Baker says: or other perceived barriers to connecting
- just like the barrier of what the VJ name
[3:14:27 PM] Camille Baker says: what is VJ culture - is it a unified
culture or cliques
[3:15:45 PM] Camille Baker says: so that's what we're talking about
[3:17:06 PM] Camille Baker says: Topher has a project to prosed to the
community:
[3:17:26 PM] Camille Baker says: he invites anyone who has time or interest
but its a short time frame
[3:17:37 PM] Camille Baker says: he's interests in unsual spaces
[3:18:00 PM] Camille Baker says: first one on the Seawall in Vancouver
[3:20:29 PM] Camille Baker says: and wants to project onto some sculptures
on the beach adn peopel are invited to bring lights - they are bringing
their own power genrator and its only for 30 minutes and braodcast on
a radio - transmitted by FM and on theme of HUman Powered transportation
- June 16th
[3:21:17 PM] Camille Baker says: Julie sugested he contact an org called
pedalpower.org
[3:22:52 PM] fe2cruz says: oh yes the clowns they are fantastic at human
energy
[3:24:01 PM] Camille Baker says: Andrew is curious about what tools are
missing for VJ's, in terms of software, as he is interested in creating
tools as a software designer
[3:24:51 PM] Camille Baker says: and asking everyone to let him know as
he interested in how to to assist vjs in their process
[3:24:58 PM] fe2cruz says: open source browser based everything is what
we all want
[3:26:07 PM] Camille Baker says: like having little clips of everthing
on the desktop just cycling through or what?
[3:26:27 PM] Camille Baker says: Topher is intersted in meta-data or semi-automatic
VJing
[3:26:44 PM] fe2cruz says: like an actual vj mixing and editing software
browser based so you could use any machine anywhere and do your work
[3:26:57 PM] Camille Baker says: ok hold on I'll tell him
[3:27:08 PM] fe2cruz says: visitorsstudio kinda does it on a small scael
[3:27:24 PM] Camille Baker says: ok everyone want that here
[3:28:34 PM] Camille Baker says: yes so I know about that and told them
more
[3:29:27 PM] fe2cruz says: i think the link is www.furtherstudio.org
[3:29:50 PM] fe2cruz says: really simple small falls only
[3:31:52 PM] Camille Baker says: ya I sorted it out here - its actually
at/ through http gallery / www.furtherfield.org somehow organized by Marc
Garrett and Ruth Catlow
[3:32:51 PM] Camille Baker says: ya i told Andrew to check it out nad
h wants to do something... he's a really talented programmer (fyi)
[3:33:04 PM] fe2cruz says: yeah its fun stuff, i hope they keep it growing
[3:34:16 PM] Camille Baker says: me too
[3:34:32 PM] Camille Baker says: I shoudl go now though...
[3:35:53 PM] fe2cruz says: tjats ok whats your email?
[3:36:03 PM] Camille Baker says: camib@telus.net
[3:36:45 PM] Camille Baker says: Thanks Christian
[3:36:51 PM] Camille Baker says: what's yours
[3:36:53 PM] fe2cruz says: i'll get this txt file to your email
[3:37:01 PM] Camille Baker says: ok
[3:37:10 PM] fe2cruz says: christiaan.cruz@gmail.com
[3:38:16 PM] Camille Baker says: cool thanks - chat again soon!
[3:38:25 PM] fe2cruz says: great thank you bye
[3:38:31 PM] Camille Baker says: bye :)
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